tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3033288879708780106.post5264776970890383868..comments2023-04-07T05:19:44.951-04:00Comments on Yes Vermont Yankee: Fuel PoolsMeredith Angwinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02737538041807740424noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3033288879708780106.post-42817577895347217172011-06-25T20:45:10.776-04:002011-06-25T20:45:10.776-04:00Before offgas recombiners VY had offgas detionatio...Before offgas recombiners VY had offgas detionations due to H2 gas in the offgas.One blew the plant stack door off its frame.With the addition of steam dilution and H2 recombiners in the offgas stream the H2 detionations were under control.<br />Radiolydic decomposition causes H2 gas to be present in the BWR's steam/offgas.<br />If not controllled H2 gas will accumlate and explode.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3033288879708780106.post-82942610401142934952011-06-17T19:07:59.541-04:002011-06-17T19:07:59.541-04:00Bob. Oh my L-rd. I know you reasonably well, we ...Bob. Oh my L-rd. I know you reasonably well, we are giving a class together in the fall, and I didn't know about this. Somebody killed. Oh heavens.<br /><br />I almost got killed, but it all ended up okay.. The problem was fluorine, F2, starting a fire. Unfortunately, the F2 was under a cryostat filled with liquid hydrogen which began rapidly volatilizing and rushing through the pipes. An alarm went off. As soon heard the alarm and realized what was going on, I switched the system from "recapture hydrogen within the lab" to 'roof line venting'. This took maybe 30 seconds?<br /><br />As I finished THAT little operation I looked around. I was the only person left in the lab. The rest were out in the hall running for it. I may have prevented a major explosion.Or not. At any rate, I consider that a narrow escape, and have had healthy respect (no, actually, fear) for fluorine and hydrogen since then. <br /><br />Around the same time, there was a hydrogen explosion at Harvard (I was at Chicago) in a similar system.Meredith Angwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02737538041807740424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3033288879708780106.post-6134300878008189332011-06-17T18:48:37.765-04:002011-06-17T18:48:37.765-04:00Indeed hydrogen explodes. My PhD experiment failed...Indeed hydrogen explodes. My PhD experiment failed, causing 40 liters of liquid hydrogen to spill into the experiment hall, instantly flashing, killing one of us.Robert Hargraveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846491141058940965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3033288879708780106.post-77751255305166831282011-06-17T08:53:14.361-04:002011-06-17T08:53:14.361-04:00A friend wrote me that "hydrogen does tend to...A friend wrote me that "hydrogen <i>does</i> tend to deflagrate rather than detonate. But a deflagration can also blow the building apart." <br /><br />So maybe what I called detonations are very strong deflagrations? For sure, they aren't fission incidents.Meredith Angwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02737538041807740424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3033288879708780106.post-80060915376040903432011-06-16T20:09:11.027-04:002011-06-16T20:09:11.027-04:00BWR spent fuel pools do not use borated water and ...BWR spent fuel pools do not use borated water and they are all designed to maintain Keff less than 0.95 percent, i.e., not critical. There was always a very, very low probability that if, for some undefined reason the fuel racks disappeared and the fuel was all brought together that a critical reaction could occur. However, it wouldn't result in an explosion.<br /><br />Gundersen is usually wrong. He may have a nuclear engineering degree but has no commercial design or operating experience. To those who understand the design and operation of nuclear plants he is comical. Unfortunately, those who have little or no knowledge consider him knowledgeable. <br />Charlatans are always with us. Arnie is only in it for the money but unfortunately the Entergy cow has gone dry.nor850https://www.blogger.com/profile/18365471164063520704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3033288879708780106.post-3153238118232191852011-06-16T19:18:15.401-04:002011-06-16T19:18:15.401-04:00I just added a hydrogen explosion video. So now I...I just added a hydrogen explosion video. So now I have three-video post. Heavens. This is a first for me.Meredith Angwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02737538041807740424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3033288879708780106.post-83856452775467873612011-06-16T19:14:56.397-04:002011-06-16T19:14:56.397-04:00My husband asked me "what is that mythbusters...My husband asked me "what is that mythbusters video doing in the post?" Good question. I wasn't clear. I was trying to show that in an enclosed area, shock waves do more damage. <br /><br />Maybe I should have used this video of a hydrogen explosion though the payoff is near the end. <br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptiCFq5YK3QMeredith Angwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02737538041807740424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3033288879708780106.post-86239024964673945332011-06-16T18:37:21.924-04:002011-06-16T18:37:21.924-04:00I have worked at both Nine Mile and Oyster Creek, ...I have worked at both Nine Mile and Oyster Creek, the same vintage as VY, and their Spent Fuel Pools defiantly will NOT go critical when dry. Has Gunderson lost any knowledge he has of a reactor? To go "prompt" critical requires a rapid increase in multiplication factor. This means a rapid change in the moderator coefficient. Air is not a good moderator (much less than water) and thus a rapid draining isn't going to do it. The pool contains almost twice as much water above the spent fuel rods as the area with the rods, So, how could anyone "rapidly" add sufficient water to "rapidly" decrease the moderator coefficient of the borated water by replacing it with fresh/sea water? Is not going to happen. <br />Look at the clip of the pool - that water looks fairly clean, cleaner than some pools I have seen at operating plants. That water must have been there all along, where did they get clean water to replace all of the water that was supposedly lost? I don't think very much was lost at all. That pool is much bigger than the average Olympic size swimming pool and about 50 feet deep.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3033288879708780106.post-69309622083949126672011-06-16T16:11:21.833-04:002011-06-16T16:11:21.833-04:00Excellent questions, Jeff!
People generally agr...Excellent questions, Jeff! <br /><br />People generally agree that the fuel pools had partially dried out. The pools lost water far more quickly than expected, and the hypothesis is that they were damaged in the earthquake, or the tsunami, or the hydrogen explosions. In other words, they leaked water, it didn't boil away due to overheating. Though some of it did boil due to overheating, once the rods were partially exposed.<br /><br />You could conceivably have criticality without a moderator, but I don't think you could have this in a fuel pool, in which the fuel is held in neutron-absorbing racks. Gundersen seems to speak as if nobody had thought of these things before he came along, but actually, there was plenty of planning to be sure fuel pools are safe.Meredith Angwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02737538041807740424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3033288879708780106.post-13920108365443559352011-06-16T15:54:50.465-04:002011-06-16T15:54:50.465-04:002 inter-related questions:
1) If there was still ...2 inter-related questions:<br /><br />1) If there was still water in the cooling pool, wouldn't it be boronated so as not to act as a moderator, thus precluding the possibility of criticality?<br /><br />2) If the pool was dry, as Gunderson claims at the beginning of the video (on what basis does he claim to know that? Does anyone else say the pool was dry at the time? How did it dry out - a crack in the pool wall from the earthquake?), what would act as the moderator? How could you get a criticality event without moderator?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com