The Debate at WHMP: Blog Post at ANS Nuclear Cafe

Denise Vozella, WHMP News Director
 Bob Flaherty, WHMP Morning Show Host

On April 24, Richard Schmidt and I debated Jeff Napolitano and Michael J. Daley on WHMP radio in Northampton, Massachusetts.  My blog post about this debate is up this morning at ANS Nuclear Cafe: Be Here Now and the Debate. You can also hear the debate on this page of the WHMP web site.  We are grateful for WHMP for hosting this event. 

I titled my post ANS post Be Here Now because a lot of the debate was about the nature of reality.  The opponents refused to admit that shutting down a nuclear plant meant encouraging fossil fuels. They didn't want to talk about the choices we make today.

Read the post at ANS Nuclear Cafe for a fuller account.

Bill Newman, Host of the Bill Newman Show
Mary Serreze, Reporter for WHMP and Northamptonmedia.com

Me and Jeff Napolitano.
Napolitano is a non-violence instructor
with the SAGE antinuclear alliance.

Michael J Daley, nuclear power opponent and author.
Richard Schmidt, conservationist and engineer.

About the photos.  Vozella and Flaherty were hosts for the first hour. Newman and Serreze were hosts for the second hour.  Schmidt and I debated Daley and Napolitano. All photos courtesy of WHMP.

Vermont Yankee Power Struggle: Radio Forum on April 24th

Richard Schmidt and I will be on a radio show about Vermont Yankee on Tuesday morning next week. There will be two people in favor of the plant (Richard and I) and two who are opposed to its continued operation. The two opponents are a long-time opponent, Michael Daley, and a trainer with the American Friends Service Committee, Jeff Napolitano. I have met neither of them. A slightly edited version of the announcement is below. We will be broadcasting from Northampton, MA.

A link to a guest post by Richard Schmidt about strontium in fish.

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The goal of the radio program is to focus on the issues surrounding the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant, including the current court battle regarding licensing between VT Yankee and the State of Vermont, safety issues, environmental concerns, economic/employment issues, as well as energy supply matters.

The program will be live, and also recorded for a podcast at WHMP.com, which you can feel free to link to. Excerpts from the program will also be used in WHMP newscasts. Questions from callers and/or those in attendance at Sylvester’s will be entertained.

The forum will be a live, two hour broadcast on WHMP Radio with frequencies at AM1400/1240/1600 and FM96.9, covering the Northampton, Greenfield, and Springfield radio markets. The broadcast will take place from 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. on Tuesday, April 24th from Sylvester’s Restaurant at 111 Pleasant St. in downtown Northampton. http://www.sylvestersrestaurant.com.

The hosts of the program will be WHMP staffers:

• Bob Flaherty, Morning Show host
• Denise Vozella, News Director
• Bill Newman, Host of the Bill Newman Show (9 a.m. talk show)
• Mary Serreze, Reporter for WHMP and Northamptonmedia.com.

Panelists for this program will be:

• Meredith Angwin, Member of the American Nuclear Society, Nuclear energy expert, Blogger for Yes Vermont Yankee. http://yesvy.blogspot.com/
• Richard Schmidt, Chemical and Nuclear Engineer, resident of Westmoreland, NH
• Michael Daley, lifelong opponent of the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant and a clean energy advocate. He lives in a solar-powered home in Westminster West, Vt.
• Jeff Napolitano, Director of the American Friends Service Committee in Western Mass, which hosts the Nuclear Free Coalition, and trainer for the anti-nuclear SAGE Alliance.

Sunny News about Fish and Vermont Yankee

All fish are radioactive. South Vermont fish, North Vermont fish, all fish.

The Vermont Department of Health (DOH) periodically tests radiation levels of fish in the Connecticut River. They always find background levels of radioactive strontium and cesium in the fish. Meanwhile, the opponents always say that Vermont Yankee contaminated the fish.

In the past two days, the DOH has announced test results of fish from the far north of Vermont, far from Vermont Yankee. The fish had the same level of radioactivity as the fish near the plant. Background levels.

The Northern Fish

Both the Brattleboro Reformer and the Burlington Free Press posted stories about the measurements of the northern fish.

Here's a quote from the Reformer: "The results are that cesium-137 and strontium-90 in Lake Carmi fish is in the same range as Connecticut River fish," said Irwin. "We take this as some evidence that all fish in Vermont are likely to have radioactive cesium and strontium at these levels and that, as we've hypothesized, it is from nuclear weapons fallout and the releases of Chernobyl. All of us are glad to have proof and not just conjecture."

....

"There's no danger in eating the fish," said Irwin. "Should we ever find that there are reasons to restrict diet from any sampling for any kind of radioactive or toxicological events, we would keep in mind different cultures have different diets."

(Bill Irwin is the radiological safety officer of the Vermont Department of Health)

In the Burlington Free Press, David Deen, a long-time foe of the plant acknowledged, however, that if future samples remain consistent, then Vermont Yankee officials were right that the plant was not the source of the strontium 90.

A Partial History of Fish Scares

Claiming radioactivity in the fish is due to the power plant is a well-worn tactic. In 2010, when strontium was detected in a fish from the Connecticut River, the nuclear opponents made this a centerpiece of their marches. Maggie Gundersen said that people should "throw the fish back" and not eat Connecticut River fish. Her husband, Arnie Gundersen, said they were finding radioactive fish near the plant but "blaming the bomb." In other words, he implied that Vermont Yankee was saying the fish had merely background radiation, but that was just a way to avoid acknowledging that it was Vermont Yankee's fault. My blog post It's the Nukes What Gets the Blame describes these events.

In 2011, there was another fish with strontium. Governor Shumlin said he wouldn't eat fish from the Connecticut River because of the strontium in this fish. Meanwhile the head of the Vermont Department of Health contradicted him, saying the fish was safe and the levels were low. I have a video of this press conference in the post That Strontium Fish in the Connecticut River. Later, Lochbaum and Markey weighed in on the side of the governor. I blogged about their assertions, also. They exaggerate.

Potassium and Strontium

In a wonderful guest post, Richard Schmidt compared the relative dangers of strontium, mercury, and naturally-radioactive potassium in the fish. In his post What is the Real Impact? Richard Schmidt on Strontium, Mercury and Potassium in Fish, Schmidt points out that 2 % of the radioactivity in the fish comes from strontium, and the rest comes from natural potassium.

Yesterday, the Brattleboro Reformer said pretty much the same thing. In the Reformer: In the same analyses, the fish had almost 500 times more potassium-40 in them than they do cesium-137, [Irwin] said. Potassium-40 is a naturally occurring radioactive material that is in nearly everything and was created when the planet was formed billions of years ago, said Irwin.

In other words, the natural radioactivity in the fish swamps any man-made sources of radioactivity.

It is safe to eat the fish. The fish in the north of Vermont. The fish near the plant. All the fish.

The Bomb: Not Banned Soon Enough

Where did all that strontium come from? It came from atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons. Fallout is real. Fallout measurements are not something a power plant "hides behind." Though the atmospheric test ban treaty in 1963 stopped most of bomb testing, there have been 2000 bomb tests.

On this video, you can see the accelerated rate of testing through the early 60s.

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Picture at the head of the post shows me approaching Blinky the fish outside a Public Service Board meeting in July 2010. I have the light-green top and black purse: Blinky has three eyes. Picture by Howard Shaffer, published in earlier blog post.

Rally in Support of Nuclear Power and Vermont Yankee

Rally in Support of Nuclear Power

For Immediate Release:

Contact Meredith Angwin

Meredith@ethanallen.org

802-291-9172

Early in the morning of September 12, local supporters of nuclear energy will rally near the Brattleboro Courthouse to show support for continued operation of Vermont Yankee power plant. At 9 a.m. that morning, hearings will begin in Federal Court on the lawsuit between the State of Vermont and Entergy. Among other things, Entergy contends that Vermont has attempted to regulate the radiological safety of Vermont Yankee, in direct defiance of federal law.

A group of people supporting nuclear power will be near the Courthouse that morning. The group includes members of the Ethan Allen Institute Energy Education Project, the American Nuclear Society Vermont Pilot Project, and the Coalition for Energy Solutions. We will be there to support continued operation of Vermont Yankee power plant, a plant that produces one-third of Vermont’s electricity with virtually no emissions. Many of the members of our group have advanced degrees in engineering, chemistry and physics. We will be happy to answer questions about nuclear energy. However, we are not there to argue with dedicated nuclear opponents. We will avoid confrontations and name-calling, which are both unfortunate tactics of some plant opponents.

This rally is not planned by Entergy or sponsored by Entergy. However, any Entergy employees who decide to join us are very welcome.

Participants will include:

• Meredith Angwin, director of the Energy Education Project of the Ethan Allen Institute
• Dr. Robert Hargraves, energy educator at Dartmouth ILEAD and advanced reactor specialist
• Willem Post, well-known energy commentator on The Energy Collective: conservation advocate and wind critic
• Richard Schmidt, nuclear engineer and advocate for small-scale solar

All these people will be available for on-site interviews.

http://www.energyeai.org/

http://www.coalitionforenergysolutions.org/

http://ansnuclearcafe.org/2011/08/08/old-tactics-new-approaches/

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This is a press release I sent to friends and to Vermont media yesterday. I look forward to seeing people at the rally!

I am trying to get a headcount. If you are coming to the rally, I would appreciate an email. Also, I can tell you a little more about our plans in a return email. Meredith@ethanallen.org

Nuclear opponents have all sorts of rallies: it is about time that pro-nuclear people had some!

Also, a big thanks to Rick Maltese at Deregulate the Atom, for posting the press release at his website.

Map from United States District Court website As usual, click to see a larger image.

What is the Real Impact? Richard Schmidt on Strontium, Mercury and Potassium in Fish

This opinion piece by Richard Schmidt ran as an editorial in the Brattleboro Reformer on August 26, 2011. Mr. Schmidt was kind enough to allow me to post it on my blog.

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Recently, the Vermont Department of Health (DOH) received a routine test report on one fish that was caught in the Connecticut River nine miles upstream from Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant in Vernon. The edible portion of this fish contained a very low but surprising level of radioactive strontium-90.

The DOH regularly monitors the environment for many such "radionuclides" to detect possible leakage from Yankee. This analysis of fish is part of that program.

Strontium-90 is a fission product that has spread throughout our environment predominately from pre-1964 nuclear bomb atmospheric testing, and is dissipating slowly with a 29 year half-life. Because strontium-90 is "hard to detect" and was detected in only one sample of fish flesh, a scientist will term such a result to be an "outlier." It lies outside of the norm. This subjects the sample and test process to scrutiny, and the result is held until further review. This is exactly what DOH has done by calling for more fish samples.

DOH said that they cannot associate low levels of strontium-90 with Yankee without supporting evidence. The DOH website also states that the result is "within the range of background strontium-90 in edible portions of fish reported in a 1971 study," prior to Yankee's startup.

Also, according to U.S. Department of Health "strontium-90 is a fairly constant part of the U.S. diet," and New York State has found similar strontium-90 levels in fish.

By taking more samples, DOH is doing a professional job and maintaining a scientific perspective on the matter.

But in a press conference found on YouTube, Governor Peter Shumlin blew this matter out of perspective when he called the strontium-90 level "high," attributed it to Yankee, and said that he would not eat fish from the river, although he did so as a boy.

He said this despite contrary information from his health department, and despite unwarranted damage to tourism. It appeared that his only purpose was to discredit Yankee.

Strontium and Mercury

This brings up two questions. The first is about strontium-90 levels over time. According to the DOH and other sources, the strontium-90 levels in fish that Gov. Shumlin ate as a boy were up to 20 times greater than the levels in this fish because radioactive decay and dispersion have since reduced the radioactivity.

The more significant question is about highly toxic mercury in our fish. Mercury in our environment is primarily due to coal-burning power plants, as coal contains mercury that is released from coal plant stacks.

Vermont and New Hampshire and most states issue advisories to limit the eating of locally caught fish due to mercury. For example, the N.H. Fish and Game Department warns against eating more than four wild-fish meals per month, restricted further to one meal per month for children and pregnant women. Children and the unborn are particularly sensitive to this neurotoxin. There is no direct connection between mercury and Yankee because the plant releases none. But if Yankee is shut down, its power will be largely replaced by low-cost coal power.

Unfortunately for us, most coal plants are to the west of us; New York has 48. The prevailing winds will carry more mercury, cadmium, arsenic, particulates and other pollutants to our environment, to the detriment of our health.

The Environmental Protection Agency wants stronger pollution controls on coal plants. It estimates such controls would reduce deaths in the U.S. by 17,000 per year and reduce related illnesses.

Radioactivity in Fish

Before making public statements about the fish, the governor should have asked "Is this strontium-90 significant?"

Let's compare the fish's strontium-90 radioactivity to the natural radioactivity that we ingest with fish and other foods, which contain the essential nutrient potassium and its inseparable radioactive isotope potassium-40.

A person eating the DOH fish sample would ingest about 2 percent of the radioactivity (6 percent of the radiation risk) from the strontium-90 relative to the natural potassium-40 in the same fish. Interestingly, natural potassium-40 makes our bodies about as radioactive as that fish in the news.

What is the Real Impact?

In truth, neither the strontium nor the potassium are significant hazards at all.

The question "Is this material significant to my health?" was completely lacking in this case. The real health impact of Gov. Shumlin's statements is to encourage the burning of more coal and the continued mercury pollution of our fish, our bodies, and our biosphere.

Richard Schmidt is a chemical and nuclear engineer and energy consultant who is not associated with Vermont Yankee. He lives in Westmoreland, N.H.

Fish shield image is the coat of arms of Narva, Estonia.

Mercury image from Wikipedia.

The Shumlin press conference video is also on one of my earlier blog posts.